Fletch Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Yep. Agree with all of it Ness. Big thing is.........IS IT VIABLE????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bettarazzi Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 @Busman: Ohhhh.... slaps forehead! That's much better than what I was thinking. Yah seeeee? This is why it's good to have open discussions. But I tell you what, I could have gotten there much sooner if we had this conversation face to face. Okay, but how would it work if the fish were interstate? And I don't get the feeling that shops order that many bettas in one go. They might just order 12 a week or something like that. Would have to actually talk to an LFS to get an idea. But they're not going to order 12 blue fish all from the same breeder are they? They'll want 3 of this and 2 of that and if it's coming from different breeders some local and some interstate then the shipping costs are going to skyrocket. Even if it was just local. How would it work if a shop's order had to be filled by 2 or 3 breeders? Does everyone have to drive over there? @rojak: What we're trying to do here is to sell more fish than we can sell if we were just selling to other hobbyists. Ideally we want to try to sell the whole spawn assuming they're all healthy and not deformed in any way. If you've got 200 blue fish you're not going to be able to sell all of them to other hobbyists. Last time I had lots of fry ready for jarring, I sneakily hosted a betta gathering at my place and then bullied people into taking them off my hands for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournebetta Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 (edited) If one LFS orders 4 coppers from me, 5 turqs from 'Razzi and 3 Red CT's from Bus, they may all arrive at separate times... so a unified order form would need to be in place so the store knows which of the order he/she has just received, and what's yet to come. Standardized pricing for certain fish - agreed to upon by Co-op members annually. As for billing - LFS might not wish to pay each 3 breeders for his hypothetical order of 4 Coppers / 5 Turqs /3 CT - so payments for orders are Pro Forma and paid before the delivery, direct to CO-OP - it then takes it's cut, pays it's slaves and minions, and passes on the payment to breeder. ...just... to save you looking up tips for other community ventures Spend plenty of time checking that your business idea is viable. It’s easy to get carried away with the excitement of starting a new co-operative. Hooray for batch testing ! <_< Edited March 29, 2011 by melbournebetta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermadum Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Agreeance over here too. Some great conversation going on in here today!! There appears to be no downside for individual breeders, it has the potential to open up a lot of avenues for the sale of their fish. It will take a bit of elbow grease to work out how much admin/coordination is required and realistically how much money the co-op needs to keep for itself in order to sustain itself. I guess the biggest cost is the website/central database etc and it's maintenance. If individual breeders are responsible for shipping their fish to the shops that cuts down on the amount of physical work a coordinator would have to do (and the amount of goodness their heart might have to stretch to or the amount required to be paid to them by the co-op). If fish are coming from different breeders in the same area (whether that's interstate or local) then the co-op can help to open discussion between those breeders, if they want to join forces when it comes to shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bettarazzi Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 In my defence, I was typing while you were posting. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournebetta Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Yeah, and I need to settle down... it's just so EXCITING.. and I get all excited... and and and......... So far as the Co Op's website - that's the easy bit! The database could be set up with a relatively cheap content management system, and I would be happy to offer my services to set this up and maintain it to a degree.... along with any branding and design elements it might require. This isn't such a bad idea, even if we set it up as an online ordering system when the importing of our fish becomes impossible... (like aquabid, without the bid.. it could be aquabuy! - oh, right... relaaaaax) This way your average punter could order small amounts of fish direct from the breeder, from photos of the ACTUAL fish ....and if the breeder wanted to, you could allow the LFS could purchase larger quantities of fish direct from the breeder at a reduced rate. mmmmmmmmmaybe....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bettarazzi Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Darn! Just happened again with kermadum. I was referring to melbournebetta. If a shop is ordering a total of 12 fish, and only 3 of them are from interstate. If the interstate supplier has to cover shipping it may not be worth their while. And we can't assume that a local breeder can hand deliver all orders. I know I don't have time to drive all over Melbourne delivering fish. I would still have to courier them. Cheaper than interstate but still a cost that I would have to bear. I'm thinking of this as mainly sales to shops rather than individuals. Because we can already do that using the forum classifieds or even AquaBid if we wanted to. With that in mind, I would really only take sample photos rather than photos of actual fish. As long as it gives the retailer an idea of what they'd be getting. This would be so much easier to discuss if we could do it in a video conference call. Should we set up a Skype video meeting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournebetta Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I see the biggest issue being variety of finnage and colour. oh, and the "T" word... I have been in denial of it's importance for years - don't make me face it now. http://www.ato.gov.au/print.asp?doc=/content/22630.htm TAX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bettarazzi Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 LOL.... I swear I refreshed before I posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournebetta Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I'm happy to gas about it on Thursday at the ASV.... Unfortunately all the business minds are interstate by the looks of things, I just make shiny websites, and shiny fishuz. -Ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermadum Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Someone get Ness something to calm her down! I think it's better than not a bad idea, I think it's a fantastic idea!! Go team for brainstorming it this far!Wow... seriously, I know how you feel Razzi... I swear that my last post was immediately after Ness' exciting jumping bean post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 This is where a element of trust comes in. As example. I have forty CT for sale. Keep ten sell thirty. Have ten for Brisbane, ten for melb (razz) and ten Sydney (Adam). Adam does swap with me for his coppers. Razzi does swap for BF. I would only accept, say twenty fish once order was placed for Brisbane for say ten of these fish. Yes I will have to feed and care for them but someone is doing the same for me. These fish are the owners fish and will be held for sale by co-op. As they are sold proceeds go to owner. If fish die, nothing owed. Trust has to be given. One lot of postage. We all have to do a bit and hopefully we all pay for our hobby. No one going to make millions here. Just an idea. We have a few people in each Capitol. Hardest part will be selling the website to the shops.Just though..........we would all have killer fish. More I think about it, above will work for a couple of friends but not on a larger scale. Must be a better idea........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournebetta Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 hey... just because I'm completely under-employed; and have time to surf forums and practice my dance moves.... not my fault I get brain-melt by 5pm (knock-off time) -Ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadoh Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 @Busman, wouldn't it be easier (and less stressful to the fish) to supply the stores directly from the breeder. Say there are set order dates (for example once per fortnight) the stores place their orders to the co-op and the breeders are then notified that they have, say, 3 red crowntails to send to shop A and 5 to shop B. If you divide your fish equally between the different states, what happens if, for example - Adam sells all 10 crowntails and needs more and Razzi can't move the ones he has? Does that mean Razzis fish then have to be packed up again and sent onto Adam to meet his orders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbournebetta Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Makes perfect sense to go direct, as I mentioned, a uniform order-form that is filled by each breeder could indicate what items on the order have just been delivered, and what are yet to come. Fortnightly if we were all to express post on an assigned day, there wouldn't be more than 48 hours between all items filling the order. K. Signing off now... will stalk the thread later when I'm home and the sedatives have kicked in -Ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kermadum Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 And those are some smoking dance moves!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 @Shadoh.........yea mate. Your right. Talking aloud. Lots of flaws. Think we are in the right path though. Even locally, in each city, a separate co-op, would be fantastic. One plan duplicated. So, from here on, think locally, how are WE going to do this?? We can all have a go....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bettarazzi Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I don't think a unified order form is the hard part. Presumably if we are building a database that breeders can load stock on we can also build in invoicing and consignment notes etc that will help track orders both for the customer and the supplier. I don't think a shop would be willing to wait for 2 weeks to have the rest of his order filled. If the entire order was filled over a few days that would be fine. But a few this week and the rest next week isn't going to work in my view. I'm struggling with the multiple breeders concept. Maybe some kind of hybrid of busmans idea is needed. What if we at least pool fish locally? And do interstate swaps at least partially so that most varieties are covered. The database then tries to fill an order as much as possible in the one place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Hold on, I need to think before I type......lol. One website, each city/area and what's available. Each breeder can sort freight out for each order. As example, Jarrod and I both bought fish from Adam to split costs and it went perfect. If a store interested, local breeders meet up, collect and courier off together. Up front courier costs per order. If they want to pay $20 for one fish or as many will fit.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rojak Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Makes perfect sense to go direct, as I mentioned, a uniform order-form that is filled by each breeder could indicate what items on the order have just been delivered, and what are yet to come. Fortnightly if we were all to express post on an assigned day, there wouldn't be more than 48 hours between all items filling the order. K. Signing off now... will stalk the thread later when I'm home and the sedatives have kicked in -Ness I don't think a unified order form is the hard part. Presumably if we are building a database that breeders can load stock on we can also build in invoicing and consignment notes etc that will help track orders both for the customer and the supplier. I don't think a shop would be willing to wait for 2 weeks to have the rest of his order filled. If the entire order was filled over a few days that would be fine. But a few this week and the rest next week isn't going to work in my view. I'm struggling with the multiple breeders concept. Maybe some kind of hybrid of busmans idea is needed. What if we at least pool fish locally? And do interstate swaps at least partially so that most varieties are covered. The database then tries to fill an order as much as possible in the one place. re Nessy and Bettarazzi, i think what you guys talked about is a CMS with log-in for admin, supplier (co-op) and buyer (this case as being LFS? + individual buyer) quite a few open source can do this, from top my head oscommerce, joomla, zencart can achieve this requirement. I reckon biggest problem will be taking photos of available stock. :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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