Matt_95 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Sarah wont mind, we discuss this often. Not the chinese one, Andrias japonicus, the japanese one, they are captive bred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jha Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Then what would be the type of salamanders that are sold in Sydney ? Also know for a fact that axolotls can be forced to morph into thier final stage resulting in a salamander that lives on land.Anyone ever try this? cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_95 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I'm not sure, I've only heard rumors and I'm not sure if they are legal ones. You can morph an axolotl but it is cruel as they arn't ment to and puts lots of stress on their bodies and reduces their life span. Sometimes it happens for no apperent reason though like Sarahs. Usually morhping is a last attempt to survive and they usually die during the process.They can be injected with hormones to induce them to morph but it is still not a good practice, most peopel do not have acces to teh proper chemicals needed anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_95 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 This is a good read about morphing axies: http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-beginner-newt-salamander-axolotl-help-topics/f48-axolotls-ambystoma-mexicanum/f57-axolotl-general-discussion/80111-hard-metamorph-axolotls.htmland this one http://www.caudata.org/forum/f46-beginner-newt-salamander-axolotl-help-topics/f48-axolotls-ambystoma-mexicanum/f57-axolotl-general-discussion/80111-hard-metamorph-axolotls.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted November 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Hey Jim, axolotls (Ambystoma mexicanum) are the only legal salamander allowed to be kept in Australia. As Matt said, Japanese Giant Salamanders are also here - but they are only allowed for high-security/research labs - not hobbyist. As for morphing them, it is possible - but as Matt said, is very painful for them, and if they do happen to make the morph - won't live longer than a year or two, rather than their normal 15-20yrs. It can be done by injecting Idoine into them, or by being kept in intolerable conditions for some time. I've had an axie morph on me before - from the pet store conditions. He didn't make it. Funny morphing was mentioned, I was just on my way in here to say that two of my axolotls (Feliz & Sonriente - the two guys I got from you, Jim) are morphing. Pretty upset over it, and just hoping they will survive the morph, even though that means it can cut down their lifespan. Both are about 9months to a year old, and should have a long life ahead of them. Internet is very slow, but I'll post pictures as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_95 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Its not iodine that is injected Sarah, it's thryoxine, I think I spelt that wrong... I believe it is made up of iodine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I thought it was Iodine as ther are quite a few Ref to it on the net. Hey Sarah Dont be upset this is your big chance and with optimal conditions you could pull these to guys through the Morph that would be so Incredable. Please keep a thread on the morphing so we can all watch and learn from what you are doing. Bugger about the High security reserch centres that the Japanese Salamanders are in I would love to get my hands on a few of them I have the right area for them and they can have the swimming pool if They want LOL they where on river monsters last night Cheers Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_95 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I think iodine helps in the production of thyroxine? or its made up of iodine or something. http://cshprotocols.cshlp.org/content/2009/8/pdb.prot5268.abstract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted November 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Thanks Les. I'll keep taking photos - Bastante (the axie that tried to morph from LFS conditions but didn't make it) died about this stage. Keeping a close eye on them - they seem to be alright... if by alright as in morphing..... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadoh Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Sorry to hear you're going through the stress of morphing again. I hope they make it through to the other side of salamanderhood... How long ago did you notice? Did the heat play a part in triggering the morphing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted November 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Thanks Jarrod. I'm not sure exactly when I noticed - but I have noticed them to just not be "right". Pretty sure I posted on it. Have also gone off eating for a couple weeks - which was why I first decided to go about the pinkies & beefheart - to try and tempt them to it, and fatten them up. It wasn't the heat - the tank hadn't gone past 21*C yet, and that's nowhere hot enough for them to morph - especially since it wasn't at that temp for a prolonged amount of time. I really do feel like I've done something wrong - I'm just not sure what. I've been told by a few different axolotl/salamander hobbyist which are experts on the matter that it must have been the conditions they were in before I got them.... not trying to pin the blame on Jim here of coarse, it could have been his supplier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadoh Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 If they survive the morph, perhaps he might swap them for a couple more since he was asking about acquiring some morphed specimens.... No matter the outcome, you have done all you can for them and I'm sure you will make them as comfortable as possible during their transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted November 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Thanks Jarrod. If they survive the morph, I will care for them terrestrially. I'm very attached, as I'm sure you all know. I would never be able to give them up, especially over something because they have morphed. I also wouldn't feel right swapping an animal that will most likely not live very long. Wouldn't know the owners, either.. Who knows, maybe it will also get people more interested in terrestrial axolotls, and try to morph them unknowing that it's cruel. Not sure if this comes across negative? Of coarse I know it was just a lovely suggestion. Thankyou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Hey there Sarah How can you think you did somthing wrong when realy they are following a path maped out for them eons ago. I am more inclined to feel sorry for the Axolotii that dont Morph as they realy havent compleated there true destiny. I can truly say that after reading your threads if I ever had to come back as a fish I would hope I had a keeper like you and I am sure there are many others on this forum who feel the same so DONT BlAME YOUR SELF, Chin up you have a job todo and a morph to supervise Master Morpher Cheer Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_95 Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 For an axolotl to metamorphise without hormone injections does require them to be kept in much less than optimal conditions.... I don't think it was anything Sarah did, she has had 3 morph now, I think they may all have come from the same wholesaler and they were kept in less than ideal conditions. The biggest problem will come in keeping them cool, are you just going to fridge them Sarah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted November 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Aha, thankyou, Les. What Matt said. I may fridge them, I'll have to keep a close eye on it. Maybe he can live in the lounge room where it's cooler. I remember I stuck Aristotle Axolotl in front of the air con last summer, as Banana was taking up all the room in the fridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jha Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Axolotls are basically the same as salamanders,except remain in the larvae stage,and can live thier life and reproduce in the larvae stage.High or increased levels of salt usually induce axolotls to morph into salamanders.Once they do morph into salamanders they should be kept in an environment intended for salamanders,similar to a frog terrarium,much less water and high humidity levels.They don't live in water no more at this stage but thier body must remain moist.The wholesaler i get my stock from have both axolotls and salamanders,which is why i asked originally if salamanders were legal or not. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted November 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Axolotls are salamanders, not just basically. As for said, they do stay in their "larval" form - which is called neoteny. As for salt, I believe this isn't true (and have just asked a couple expert salamander keepers just now I'm chatting to). Salt would not make them morph. Thanks for the tips on their care - have researched the care of Tiger Salamanders, as it would be exactly the same. Would you happen to have any info on the "salamanders" your wholesaler has? Could they be morphed axies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
les Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Hey Jim I am intrested in knowing what type of Salamandars they have, do you think they can be shiped inter state after morphing? Cheers Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_95 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Salts will do it, salt isn't kust NaCl, NO3 is a salt, that is nitrates ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jha Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Would you happen to have any info on the "salamanders" your wholesaler has? Could they be morphed axies? The breeder that supplies my wholesaler has been breeding axolotls for over 10yrs and did not even realise that axolotls can be induced to morph into salamanders untill recently when I was discussing about it with a staff there,and he happened to be there. So only info I have is that the axolotls and salamanders come from 2 different sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_95 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Have you seen them? If so, what do they look like? Are ther albino and melano ones aswell as speckled ones? If so they would be morphed axies. If you ever get some in I would be very interested in getting one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted November 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 I'm quite certain these are infact morphed axolotls (if they aren't, it's illegal). So you're saying that the axolotls, and the morphed ones are from two different sources - not ones that have been bred and then have morphed? Interesting. There are pictures of morphed axolotls (and Tiger Salamanders - which aren't legal) HERE, along with care information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_95 Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Here he is: Also, you can't turn them into salalmders because they already are, they are morphed into terrestrial salamders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Posted November 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Thanks Matt. That's my Sonriente..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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