melbournebetta

Bettaqueen - he's a pretty little fish, if you were looking for a female for him, perhaps look for Busman's Red Rocket CT spawn log.

-Ness

P.S.

Les: the argument i'm putting forward would mean the short fin needs as much exercise as their bodies need to help develop as best they can - to make the most of his body type and spread (i.e. go to the gym every day)

...so there is no real method to it, and no blanket answer - every individual fry from each spawn needs a different ammount of time at the gym, just as you or your brother need difference.

Just as the long tail would get as much exercise as his body would need to maximise his individual development.

It's kinda philosophical, and as I've said.

I'm new to this - no expert, and I'm just testing a theory I have (: just because I'm big on using bold and italic dosen't mean I know what I'm on about

Food for thought: The breeders in Thailand know that they want the best fish as easily as possible, as they're working on a large scale - wouldn't standard barracks be long and narrow, not square and upright - if I were right?

hmmmmmmmmmm I do love a spanner in the works.

Other people's ideas welcome! What is everyone else's experience with grow-out tanks, done any experimentation?

-Ness

Thanks for indulging the arty rant... these are all just theories cooked up by the mad-scientist part of my brain.

I'm planning on making a series of these runs, but with the ability to "card" and "un-card" ...while the kids are flaring like mad, they probably will tire of swearing at everything and become complacent.

(Which is why people card at home & at shows)

MT: www.nessflett.com - i'm dying in a tiny horrible artist's run space in Fitzroy... it's what all the cool kids are doing.

Actually (you'll all appreciate this) I got so bored i packed up, drove to coburg aquarium, bought a nice super delta, popped it in my tank and came back... nobody has been at the gallery since i left.

My god - that really was an essay.

Curious about the colour in foxes, it's interesting what we inadvertently breed out of animals to domesticate them... for example, a quiet submissive fox that is good at being fed and not hunting, wouldn't succeed in the wild - so therefore cultivating those little black foxes is actually just breeding dumb foxes (in shorthand) Then what we want to breed them up to look like the real thing, so I'm sure we cross back to red ones to get colour but end up with sneaky lil foxes that eat our chickens... oh the dilemma of being the top of the food-chain.

it's a blessing and a curse.... makes me want to make more art.... and throw another pair in the spawn tank

-Ness

MT - that makes sense to a degree, and dont mind me while I think aloud to help flesh-out the theories.....

A few considerations; I currently have 9 of my copper spawn in a grow-out tank.

5 are in perforated floating Jars so they get the heat and filtration.

4 are in what i'm calling the "runs" which are very narrow (6 cm wide) but 30 cm long divided areas - like barracks... but long.

The dividers are all transparent meshy plastic, they can all see each other, and I know if I had a microphone they would be swearing their heads off... flaring at each other, darting up and down (which is what I want) and swimming plenty.

These kids in the 'runs' are 2 suspected males and 2 suspected females (this is on purpose, they will all get rotated so they get 4 days in the runs/4 days in the jars - until I get a better run system going.)

The tanks are also fairly heavily planted so they don't get stressed out and have some down time up the back.

The theory is this: the kids in the runs will have better developed Caudals; yes, from flaring, but also from travelling horizontally and exercising their bodies overall... instead of longer anal fins from traveling up and down the jar for food.

I haven't done the first rotation, but the difference in size is pretty obvious already, the kids with better circulation and room to "run" are about 4mm longer than their jarred siblings. (after 2 water changes and about 10 days)

Note: They're about 10 weeks old [spawn log here] measuring (guessed) 45mm long ...i haven't got a ruler! but they're a good size.

Both my boys and girls in that spawn have been jarred since 5-6 weeks, and both sexes demonstrate flaring, territorial behaviors and even bubble nesting... so there is no advantage that either sex has had more/less conditioning.

Another consideration: The 4 older ladies I have in separate tanks go MENTAL when I un-card them, which I do several times for around 30 mins a day (or for a few hours if I'm lazy) I do this to exercise them and maintain form. (as it's a theory) Which is irritating because I've been toying with putting together a sorority tank for all the ladies to make my life easier, but it just won't work... I mean, my copper lady's name is FANG for good reason.

So my theory is this (totally open to discussion, this is fun & lets face it, I'm an artist not a geneticist! ...but definitely interested in behavior)

* Females and Males have equal opportunity to develop territorial behaviors if they are all jarred and dealt with at the same time, and in turn will develop to their own full physical potential equally.

(the same as both girl & boy going to the Gym)

* Females may demonstrate less territorial behaviors if they are placed into a sorority tank, develop a pecking order and given time to develop "social consciousness" the pecking order would lead to less disputes and therefore less opportunity to flare and demonstrate the territorial behaviors that (in theory) develop caudal spread and development

(the same as boy going to gym, and gal staying home to knit with all the other ladies)

So I think this debunks the theory that males or females have more impact on the fry outcome - but might raise the question of how the females are raised

Is flaring and territorial behavior beneficial to a fish's development?

Is the sorority tank then a hinderance to the fish's development?

The other point I wanted to make was in regard to "Nature V.S. Nurture"

Its an old argument that discusses what makes up our personalities, and our physical appearance (health/physique/and personal style)

Is it what is in our Nature (i.e. what we have inherited from our parent's genetics and personality tendencies)

Or are we a result of a few genes mum and dad threw together, and the experiences/environment/nurture & developmental advantages (i.e. diet / culture / socio-economic status etc) that have shaped us into who we are.

Bottom line:

I will breed a tattered sad old fish, if I know that once he had spectacular form, and has good health and longevity.

Why? Because I want his fry to inherit his genes (nurture argument) he's old and tattered from his lifetime of 50 bouts of fin-rot, 5 cases of velvet and all the "Nurture" arguments such as his environment and water issues.

But the fry will have the genes, and their own chances not to grow tattered if their new homes provide better environments than what 'dad' had.

....obviously i'm bored, i've got 8 hours to 'sit' a an exhibition I'm in, in an obscure gallery that nobody goes to.

I've been here an hour and have another 7 hours in front of me.

Somebody please respond before I use any more bold or coloured text. ARGH

-Ness

Something that we can't deny is that both parents contribute equally to the fry final form...

I'm no expert on Betta genetics as such, but we all know (as with humans) neither Sire (father) nor Dam (mother) are more important to the result, as it's the way their individual genes mesh that deciphers the result.

I've made a little bit of noise on the forum in regard to the female's form being over-looked with choices in pairing, and stand by it...

I know we want spawns with 90% boys so we can sell them or have tanks full of beautiful boys (let's face it, they're the peacocks)

And having just kept betta for display - I had only boys - why wouldn't you?

BUT when you're planning who to shove in the spawn tank - take a long hard look at little miss.

She's just as responsible as he is for beautiful fry.

end-o-rant!

-Ness

Wayne, I think this would be an additional advantage, but I'm a Multimedia Designer, so I want to say yes...... but for fairness and the ease of judging I'm probably going to say no....

Is there any reason you can't submit a photo?

I'm trying to source a rock-star judge that I can just email off the entries to, just judging a handfull of photos might be incentive, but if they have to investigate links etc I think it might be pushing it.

(Please make the video anyway! we'd all like to see it)

-Ness

Eek - delete shell grit then!

Rhys, if you're trying to get back to Crown Tail, why not start with a CT female?

There are some at the Coburg Aquarium that are pretty nice (I realize this is a few hours away from the 'rrat) Are you coming into Melboune anytime soon?

-Ness

guilty! - sorry i wasn't aware we had to have permission to post (?) n00b.

sorry

Hey Roc,

Always good to have a 'New Guy' especially when he's a Betta man!

You're lucky there are a few breeders in NSW, I'm sure they'll become obvious - have a good look through the Gene pool at the spawn logs, when they are around 2-3 months old you start seeing them appear in the Classifieds section of the Forum.

Also worth looking at (if you're as fussy about your fish as I am) see youtube channel "Fishchick65" for amazing imported HM's and specialty Betta.

The old TV sounds like a classic transformation - they're quite a task, good luck... be sure to document it in the DIY section of the forum.

(I sound like a flight attendant, and the exits are here, here and here.)

One last thing, we're having a nerdy forum competition, it might inspire you to get the TV done! The thread is here

Have a look around - enjoy - and if nobody has asked a question before- ask away.

-Ness

I'd also look at putting in some shell grit, this helps to stabilize the pH to around 7.5 (this is what I understand to be the case)

You could also look at adding some aged driftwood if you have any? definitely IAL

Don't worry too much about the argument that pH affects gender ratios, at this stage there is no real correlation or substantial anecdotal evidence as yet.

Perhaps you can contribute to the "discussion" after your spawn, it's going to be a long while until we start seeing real trends.

Good luck with the spawn.

Also, have you checked the Carbonate hardness? if the hardness isn't right the pH will swing quite a lot.

-Ness

inspiration / ideas / eyecandy

http://www.guitarfish.org/category/conventions/page/2

Photo Stream Here (FLIKR)

http://www.homeinteriorszone.com/interior-decoration/home-decoration/13-truly-astonishing-aquariums/

....what NOT to do!

novelty!

Serious stuff again:http://www.adana-usa.com/index.php?main_page=afa_portfolio

k, sleeptime now.

Matt - that should be fine, just make sure they're in there (somewhere)

Wayne - conveniently I have one (8lt) that Big W prepared earlier.......

Further notes and inspiration:

Inspiration:

AGA Aquascaping Competition entries and winners

Aquascaping World Competitions

AAC Contest

Judging:

Ideas and considerations of critera for judging

Photographing Aquascapes (resources)

Article 1

Article 2

AA Aquascaping Competiton 2011

The Classes:

Class 1: Small Aquascape (under 9 litres)

Class 2: Large Aquascape (over 9 litres)

Class 3: Novelty (any size novelty/themed/quirky use fish tank, must be safe for fish and able to be used as display tank)

Note: The tank must contain a betta of any description, and be made visible in the photo.

How to enter: email your best photo to melbourne.betta@gmail.com, and include the following

Ausaqua username

A title of the artwork/tank/scape

Contact email address

Note only one entry per person, each person can enter all 3 classes.

Entries in by May 22nd - any email arriving after MIDNIGHT will not be considered. (Melbourne EST)

Judging:

Special Guest Judge to be announced.

Winners announced:

One week later, May 29th.

PRIZE: As well as the love and respect of your fellow AusAqua members, winners up to 3rd place will receive a personalized graphic trophy for use in their signatures etc.

Some images for inspiration, there are no limits!

-Ness

Hi Spanger & Spanger,

What luck you have that you're both into the fish together, watch out, I recently got back into the betta world and now have 4+ breeding pairs, 9 juvies, 80+ month old fry and a whole nest of tails....

They're more-ish, and if you start with good quality fish, you'll love them all the more (and might even want to try your hand at breeding!)

A great place to start is someone Lea's Youtube Channel - go search for Fishchick65, and sort from Date Added (for most recent fish)

Don't be put off by pricing, these are outstanding quality imported fish from Thailand.... she ships them from QLD and I've had great experience with their health upon arrival.

However you're in luck- there are plenty of breeders in NSW (and very active on this forum) so keen an eye on the Classifides.

I'd suggest looking briefly at Stephan's site - I love showing newbies here, because while they're 3d models and don't look like REAL fish - they are as close as we have to examples of the "ideal" fish

While you're just starting out - you might not end up with a wizz-bang show fish (I still don't have one) you'll know what to be looking for, and what's worth aiming for!

http://superbbettas.com/Bettas4AllShowStandard/Bettas4allShowStandard&3DBettaModels.html

Another fun place to traul around and get an idea of what you might like is Aquabid, google it... you'll never be the same again. (very pricey process, but nice to window shop!)

All the best with your purchase, I love that you aren't rushing it

-Ness

May 22nd has a nice ring to it, and buys us 4-5 weeks to get busy.

3 categories... i'll write up a set of guidelines tomorrow and get it all goin'

-Ness

Hi Circa,

Welcome to the forum!

-Ness

Oh dear, I've been scooping out the mozzie larvae from our big 44 gallon drum in the backyard.

Are Damselfly known around Melbourne? I've never seen one.... but I don't look for flies much. :T

They EAT FRY!? I'm going to cry.

how big is that nymph Betta Obsessed?

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuck

Some lovely photos,

As you know they look much stronger in colour when the light is behind you or to the side - shining on the fish.

I'm quite interested in Rayne the female - do you have any other shots of her - she has amazing shapes on her.

(: Great jobs with the close ups!

-Ness

Okay that (kinda) Settles it, I'll start a new thread next week with the comp specs - three classes at most...

Thinking 1.) 9 litres and under planted/aquascaped tank 2.) 10 litres and over planted/aquascaped tank and 3.) Themed/Novelty/Quirky tank

Winners recieve a delightful graphic with the 2011 Aquascape design (I'll come up with something) ...and place

How long do we need to get the entries in? 1 month?

-Ness

Neffy,

That's fantastic!!! Love the idea of the mini tank.

Okay - wise words, and great feedback.... Leave it with me, I have some ideas on guest judge/s

So lets do an aquascaping comp first... thinking of these classes:

9 litres and under (this includes the Dymax iq3 and smaller single male betta tanks)

then 9 litres and over (everything else - no limit)

and the final novelty/theme tank

What could be prizes? Anyone got ideas, or are we just happy to do it for "Rep"

-Ness

Hey guys,

I've noticed there have been a few comps on in previous years, for various things including Aquascaping and the like.. see 2009 link: http://ausaqua.net/gallery/

I was thinking of inviting y'all to help me drum up a prize/or incentive to have a series of tank comps.

Perhaps things like:

Aquascaped / Planted tank under 20 litres

Aquascaped / Planted tank over 20 litres

Theme tank design under 30 ltres

Best example of freshwater plant (I don't know much about plants, how might you divide up the categories?)

Best example of saltwater plant... etc etc

And maybe even a virtual "table show" with fish we have bred (no imports or purchases, to encourage & appreciate our aussie breeders)

Hows about it?

Perhaps there's a $5 entry per class and winner takes aaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllllll

Not sure - thinking out aloud with end-of-day-brain-melt.

mmmm?

Bus- They're doing so well!!!

Haven't seen a DT CT before, I'm pretty sure - he's beudiful.

-Ness

Les, 2 Questions:

1.) Will you make them to order

and 2.) can we see a pic? Sounds great - I was going to have some persepex laser cut for a small barrack system for my new spawn!

Good to know about what adhesive to use - thanks

I would have said cambodian underneath the dragon scales, but she could have the redloss, but there looks to be a spot of red on that dorsal (all guesses)

-ness

nyah - responded too late.

-Ness